Well, as much as a cheat it is, I'm happy that those bikes can go quiet on slow (city) streets but as loud as possible on the highway (increase security and swag).
I'm a motorcyclist too, and straight piped Harleys make me stabby. I don't believe they're louder on the highway. I believe they're louder whenever they're within earshot of any place where people congregate without earplugs (cafes, restaurants, pedestrian areas), whereupon the scumbag on the seat finds it necessary to go wide-open throttle to show off how terrible their bike sounds. It never fails.
I'm a motorcyclist and I'm downvoting this fallacy. If this were seriously the case then good beginner bikes like the Ninja 250 and Honda CBR250R would be unsafe, especially for new riders. Enjoy your loud pipes if you like (I do on my throaty Aprilia) but don't pretend they give you any safety benefit to balance the annoyance it causes some people.
I too am a motorcyclist (85K miles of sport bike riding, Sunday morning ride to Pt Reyes was a lot of that, current stable is r1200gs and wr250r).
I despise loud pipes, just frigging hate them. But I live in deer country (Santa Cruz mountains) and I've hit a deer at speed on the GS (did not wipe out, lifted the front end and had my front tire hit it square in the hind quarters, spun the deer around, I dropped the front wheel down and did a very shaky coast to a stop. My hands were shaking like a vibrator on steroids).
After that experience I really wonder if loud pipes would have scared the deer off. I tend to doubt it, I've not installed a louder pipe, but it's made me less pissed off at the loud pipe people. Not a lot less pissed off, but some.
BTW, shoutout to the Ninja 250 and especially the 500 version. I had two of the EX500's and those were by far my favorite sport bikes. Lots of torque, could pull any 600rr off the light (yeah, the 600 was blasting by me 2/3rds of the way down the block, but do you really want to ride a sewing machine? I don't. Loved my 500 twins.)
I despise overly loud pipes - like, you have to scream loud.
But,Ive been riding a bike a lot as well.
Way too quiet exhausts (like EU is constantly pushing on us) are dangerous - ive seen it myself - my dad with a louder exhaust passes with no issues and I, silently, get cut off and nearly run off the road by a guy that assumes that mirrors are for pussies.
It happened quite a few times already.
Annoying lights help. I ride with some quite bright led lights I got off of advrider.com and I think they help. You could get the flashy kind that bicyclists use, those definitely make them more visible.
If you are in a modern EU/Korean/Japanese car, you would have to be rather unlucky or going fast if anything was to happen to you. Also,it takes a lot more to actually drive you off the road - you can literally push back.
On a motorbike all it takes is a bump,and, you have to be lucky not to end up in hospital.
Btw in no way im for window rattling. However, EURO4/5, I would not be surprised if my vacuum cleaner was louder
+1 here. I have two bikes: one is a custom tracker (read: bunch of parts bolted together into something that runs... mostly) with open pipes. The other is a Zero SR (electric). Although anecdotal, I notice no difference in driver perception of my presence, except in stand still traffic, where it is least needed.
With the level of acoustic engineering that goes into modern vehicles specifically to block out external noise, combined with radio / in car entertainment, relying on other drivers being able to position you from audio is a bad idea. Now if bikes were to be fitted with cell phone jammers, that I could get on board with.
TL;DR - I stand by my comment, loud bikes helps people hear you but that doesn't mean you have to be EXTRA LOUD to be cool.
I understand the point you are trying to make, and perhaps I wasn't very clear in my off-hand comment. I agree that overly loud bikes are annoying, however, as I stated before, sound is a necessary evil[0].
Do I believe that motorcycles should use straight pipes and increase their sound output? NO, in fact its quite annoying. However, louder bikes will get your attention.
In fact, in reference to [0], there is a standard that some vehicles had to INCREASE their decibel output because of less risk to pedestrians. This isn't an apples-to-apples comparison as this study was mainly geared towards electric vehicles, but it did state that vehicles should have an output of ~ 55dB for pedestrian safety (page 102).
Secondly, I couldn't find good stats on motorcycle decibel output, but I did find a study of some motorcycles and their average output[1]. What I learned is that most bikes are fairly equal with regard to output and all are at, or above the, legal limit[2].
I took a single bike you pointed out `Honda CBR250R` and was curious how the noise output performed to a Harley:
`Honda CBR250R`: [3]
- With dB-Killer fitted: 86 dB @ 4,250 rpm
- Without dB-Killer fitted: 94 dB @ 4,250rpm
2006 Softail Standard 1,400 cc: [4]
- 97 decibels at idle
- 102 decibels at cruising speed
- 111 decibels revved
So what it appears to me is that most motorcycles are `roughly` the same decibel output and that having a vehicle that outputs sound to make yourself known to other riders is beneficial. Should you be increasing the sound trying to be cool? No, I don't think so. In fact its annoying when the 5 Harleys are sitting outside my window on Friday night revving their engines to be "cool".
My parents live in the country approx 1/2 mile from a fairly busy 2 lane highway and the location of their house would be perfect if not for the fact that Harley-Davidson makes motorcycles. In the evening the sound of all the other traffic on that roadway pales in comparison to that of Harleys. To be fair, some of that distinction is probably due to the fact that a big twin seems to produce a noise signature that [regardless of the reported same DB output claims] carries much further than other types of engine configurations. But also I suspect that a large number of HD riders, because of 'safety' logic or ego or whatever, spent their first extra $400 after purchase on a new set of louder aftermarket pipes. The net effect is that they henceforth serve as 'ambassadors of alienation' for most people. Ducati and Buell riders don't seem to have the same fears or need for special recognition.
One, decibels are a logarithmic unit. Two, you are comparing factory exhausts on the Harley meant to comply with noise regulations with top of the line aftermarket race exhausts for the Honda (which is probably as loud as you could make the Honda without removing the pipes entirely). They are not anywhere near each other - and the data in [1] really makes that point, I'm not sure how you concluded that most motorcycles are anywhere near each other in sound output.
That's not a good statement. Just because a number is logarithmic does not make sound logarithmic...Here is a video that shows two different exhaust with similar dB output: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax6W-V9bsmg
> Two, you are comparing factory exhausts on the Harley meant to comply with noise regulations with top of the line aftermarket race exhausts for the Honda (which is probably as loud as you could make the Honda without removing the pipes entirely). They are not anywhere near each other - and the data in [1] really makes that point,
Something vital is lost in motorcycling that my bike is so loud to make children cry and people really detest my presence everywhere in the name of saving my fat posterior.
All my bikes are quiet, even my Buell (relatively speaking). I have installed extra loud horns on them and I'm not afraid to use them. That's what horns are for: to say "I AM HERE", nothing more, nothing less. Save your engine for moving the bike forward, not making all of us bikers an anathema to civil society.
I agree with you, and I wasn't referring to ear piercing noise of modified bikes.
However, as I answered in a response to one of the other commenters, sound is an essential element in bringing awareness to yourself.
`All my bikes are quiet, even my Buell (relatively speaking)`
- From what I've found in my short research is that most bikes are in similar decibel level output (within similar engine capacity) and that they are all fairly loud. Clearly there's something to that.
But I degrees, I never meant to say that you have to be extra loud to be an ass, I was merely pointing out that sound is an element of awareness, like your horn or the headlight.
Wait, why are motorcycles important? They're inherently less efficient, netting out roughly the same environmental impact --- assuming modern motorcycles! --- but without the ability to carry passengers or significant amounts of cargo.
Maybe in the west where motorcycles are more of a leisure transport than a mode of commute, but in developing countries bikes with small engines in the ball park of 100 cc (the honda cub for example) are definitely some of the most efficient modes of transportation. In India i could get a bike that could comfortably get around 60kmpl in normal driving conditions ( 3 bikes with 6 passengers total would be about the same as a prius at about 1/10th the cost). And in a congested city, no other mode of transport beats it (unless the city has a very well connected metro rail transportation)
Like your spirit (I don't like the loud pipes either) but this is a little unfair. Motorcycling should be part of a more sustainable future. Especially when you consider how many OECD commuters commute in cars alone.
I don't think motorcycles are actually so unsafe that they need to be that loud. But rather than argue about that, I'd rather point out that massive noise pollution isn't a fundamental right, so "we must be that loud to ride" is just saying "we shouldn't ride."
Motorcycling is 45 times more likely to result in death than driving in a car.
Electric vehicles are sustainable, motorcycles are death traps that can't be made safer (said as an ex-owner of a Katana, and both a Yamaha R1 sport bike and Roadliner cruiser).
I agree with the parent. I despise motorcycles for their noise. On a nice spring/summer/fall day, it can be quiet and peaceful where I live (small community of 120k). More often than not, though, that quiet is ruined by a loud annoying motorcycle.
I'll be happy when motorcycles are electric, and therefore silent. If your vehicle can't carry you safely without being unnecessarily noisy, then it just shouldn't be on the road.
Except when you're in my blind spot, and your pipes are pointing backwards, I still won't hear you until you're in front of me and I've already seen you. Cars are incredibly quiet inside these days.
I understand that concept that "Your pipes are pointing backwards so the isn't helping with making people aware of you in the front". From my research, it seems that most motorcycle accidents occur with a driver crossing, to the left, in front of the motorcycle and that the decibels, horn, and lights didn't help the driver (of the motorcycle).
I also agree that you don't have to make your bike EXTRA loud to be noticed but there is a perceived safety in sound. And if majority of the sound is exiting towards the back, there might a point to be made that the decibel level should increase to "hopefully" make the person in front of you aware.
I completely agree with you! I live in an area where on Friday and Saturday nights there are always groups of 5-6 bikers sitting outside and just revving their engines to "sound cool" and that's very annoying.
I didn't meant that you had to be extra loud or replicate the idiotic behavior of our neighborhood bikers. I was merely pointing out that loud sounders are safer. I had a more detailed reply above.
So right, too much noise = bad. Just enough sound = maybe good.
This is the silliest thing I've read all day. For starters, you're implying that drivers have less need to perceive small bikes...or other cars, apparently.
My reply comment wasn't very detailed and gained some criticism that I understand.
You make a valid point "... implying that drivers have less need to perceive small bikes...or other cars, apparently."
As I stated above, but will re-iterate because its a valid reply here, there seems to be a necessary of roughly 55db produced by a vehicle to ensure safety for pedestrians and other vehicles. [0]
My initial comment was incomplete: it's not okay to have an extra loud bike to be "cool", however, it is important to have a high enough decibel output that other people can hear you. Most bikes produce similar dB off the manufacturing plant for a reason and electronic vehicles are required to output more sound to be safe.
So no, i'm not implying that drivers have less need to perceive small bikes or other cards. I'm implying that all vehicles should produce the necessary decibel output to bring attention to themselves.
