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Ever thought what do these salespeople do in a software company? This is what happens when salespeople fail to do enough of their thing.

Sales are essential for a for-profit company.



Not sales. Marketing. In today's world having someone push a new database for a hefty price is not going to work. I would need to be able to test it against mongo and decide myself that it is better... but how would I know it's even an option?


Back in 2014 I was consulting FoundationDB on marketing and customer acquisition. After FoundationDB was acquired by Apple, I got introduced to RethinkDB and was excited about the prospect of helping market another promising DB company.

Unfortunately, after a short while I stopped hearing from them. It doesn't look as though they ever brought in any marketing help since then.


Is there a firm line between sales and marketing these days? Is sales just the high-touch end of the marketing continuum?


> Is sales just the high-touch end of the marketing continuum?

IMO, no. Sales and marketing are pretty different things.

Marketing isn't "sales without people", and sales isn't "marketing done in person". They target different problems, and you may need one, the other, or both to be convincing, depending on the product or service.


You build a great product. Now what? How do you get users?

The next step is marketing. Unless your target market is so tiny you or your sales team can do a direct outreach.

Gaining users and customers is extremely difficult, often unpredictable and potentially expensive. While a bad product/technology/service can set you back there is no guarantee the best will get you success. Users can be unpredictable and the adoption curve for anything new is long.

Sometimes marketing is earlier in the market identification and product building stage so you know the market you are going after, gaps, segments and the value proposition to customers or users. This is product strategy. You can completely botch this step and expend effort on a product/service that is not clearly differentiated and has no market case.

B2C (business to consumer) marketing typically use large budgets to reach a wide potential customer base using traditional advertising channels, and now online and social channels. Even 'lucking' out with hype, viral marketing and rapid adoption requires someone or a team to fuel this hype.

B2B (business to business) marketing is more hands on and about building a predictable pipeline for your sales team to target and close. In some b2b business the sales cycle can be hugely long and expensive and the cost per lead and opportunity measured in thousands of dollars.


Marketing is about figuring out your customer's needs. Sales is about promoting your products.

Both are done to sell more stuff.


Marketing has always been a bit vague. Some definitions of marketing subsume the entire purpose of a company; for example, one definition is "identifying, anticipating and satisfying customer requirements profitably" - this could be used as the definition of a business enterprise.

IMO marketing is all about getting a good fit between what the company sells and what the market outside the company wants. It could be creating demand, so that the market changes to fit what the company creates; or it could be shaping the company's offerings to what the market is asking for; or it could be advertising, to make the market more aware of how the company's current offerings are a good solution for what the market is asking for. One way or another, it's about bridging the gap.

Sales is the process of completing profitable transactions. It's typically high-touch, one to one, and involves taking prospects, qualifying them, figuring out what they need and how the company's current offerings solve that problem in a personalized way, and managing the process to completion, and potentially further to upselling in the future. It's a pipelined process and is ultimately a numbers game, where the odds of proceeding to completion depend on both the value proposition and the salesperson's skill in communicating it.


Marketing is more about making the customers think they need your product.


The marketing strategy was the product itself, given that it was free, as well as the open development process.

And I do think that strategy was working to some degree; at least on channels like HN where we frequently saw posts related to RethinkDB.


The people that use HN aren't the people that sign checks for enterprise support contracts.

Guess what - database vendors like Oracle, MongoDB (to a much smaller extent) that get a bad rep on HN actually sign deals for real money.


> The marketing strategy was the product itself

And we see how that worked out. Pricing is an important component of marketing, but it's not a marketing strategy in itself.


So, maybe we should find a way to develop good technology that doesn't involve for-profit companies?


Non profit companies still need to make money to keep the lights on. That means targeting technologies that can attract lots of donations. Databases are a very mature technology so the number of companies running into issues with them is vanishingly small. Who is going to donate to a non profit spending its time developing a solution a problem almost nobody has?


I don't know, I feel like lots of people donate to universities to spend their times solving problems that almost nobody has. Or maybe they don't, but somehow that money still exists. How does that work?

Why are we assuming that everything has to be done by companies? What if we establish a National Science Foundation for fundamental CS research?


If you’re not getting paid by your users, then you often get something cool, but maybe not something you want to go to production with.


Or maybe they don't, but somehow that money still exists. How does that work?

This isn't that difficult of a question.

1) Universities get money from the students who pay tuition and fees for their education. 2) Universities get money from wealthy benefactors who donate their money to a cause they believe in. 3) Universities get money from for-profit companies that have sufficient commercial success to invest into research and such for what they hope will be later commercial benefit. 4) Universities get money from people who confiscated the money from other people, under threat of force and who might not have given it otherwise, and give it to a cause they believe in.

Not necessarily in that order by whatever measure you may choose. Note that, In no case did the wealth magically just appear. The wealth to consume was produced somewhere by someone.

Sounds like you're proposing 4 as you imply that the we that is not the companies won't be trying to create the wealth you want to use in your cause.


There's plenty of fundamental research being done. Research doesn't yield products.


Building roads/bridges is probably the better analogy. Infrastructure type public goods never seems to come from donations, only taxes.


Universities are still businesses. Grants, tuition, other fees, donations, endowments, etc all generate plenty of cash.


Easier said than done.




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