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I enjoy this joke because it tickles my pre-conceptions, that I grew from reading articles on the internet by Americans. But is it really accurate (not in the literal sense obviously)?


> But is it really accurate (not in the literal sense obviously)?

It's basically accurate in the literal sense. Or at least, I'm a parent and I'm seeing this essentially word-for-word with all nearby parents/children in our area. The venmo part stands out as being a SF thing. In the midwest, even young families are mostly old school and just pay with a credit card or paper check (yes literal paper checks written from a checkbook).

But the rest of it...yeah? It's essentially accurate.

Playdates are always scheduled beforehand (in Google Calendar, or far more commonly via Facebook invites between the parents). You do have to drive the child 10-15 blocks to every event (children are so expensive and housing is even more expensive, no one can afford to live near each other, so kids of similar age groups are still all spread out across the metro region and not in any one area/neighborhood). You can check on your kids at via smartphone at any daycare, and any other activity requires at least one parent be present anyway. All activities are required to have some attempt at "education", no matter how silly or tenuous that is.

And it's kind of tricky because it's a defacto part of society. I hate this hyper-scheduled hyper-data-driven stuff myself. But since the large majority of other parents do this, I can't avoid it -- we must contribute to this with our own kid too, otherwise we'd be depriving the child of social interaction with other children of matching ages.


It's not accurate -- or at least, not necessarily. I live in "urban California" (East Bay), and at this moment (7:40p on a Sunday evening), my five-year-old daughter is out front on the stoop with one of our five-year-old neighbors, who wandered over to show her a new toy motorcycle he got. My ten-year-old is out to an impromptu dinner with a friend of his and their family. My thirteen-year-old is at a nearby park skateboarding and/or playing pickup ultimate with some friends.

The five-year-old will come in shortly; the ten-year-old will be home later; I expect the thirteen-year-old home sometime around sundown. I planned none of this -- none of it was scheduled. Moreover, none of this is an attempt to educate them in any conventional way, and the only data driving is that freedom and unstructured time help build important qualities like independence and resilience.

As with so many things, there are many microclimates of parenting and child-rearing; if you value unstructured time for your kids and building their independence, you can likely find a community that shares those values.


Beautiful, sounds like my life in S. Minneapolis in 1985-2005ish. My friends who still call it home are having kids recently and they’re pretty free-range organic like this too. I’ve been thinking about forgoing a fam because of how things seem in my SF life for the last years (NoPa to Outmost Sunset). I like Oakland when I visit, like First Fridays, vibe is more relaxed. Thanks for sharing.


> you can likely find a community that shares those values.

So did you look for such a community yourself, or did it just happen? Either way, do you have any tips that maxsilver and others can use to find or create a good "microclimate"?


Yes, we absolutely sought out a community that shared our values; it didn't just happen. And it wasn't easy or quick; it took us a while to identify a community, and then a while more to find a house here (with our objective to find a house before our oldest entered kindergarten). In terms of tips: spend spare time trying a community on for size; go to its parks, walk its streets, talk to its inhabitants, meet its neighborhood groups. And importantly, figure out where you're willing to compromise. (For example, if walkability is important to you (and it is to us), you will almost certainly be compromising on lot size and house size: walkable neighborhoods usually have high density, which likely means smaller dwellings more tightly packed.)

None of this is easy, but finding a community that matches your values (or at least isn't inconsistent with them) is worth the effort: it's one of the most important decisions you'll make in your adult life, and merits special time and attention.


Paying when visiting friends sounds bad to American ears (maybe others) but I'm not so sure it's objectively bad.

Here in Japan if someone throws a house party it's common for everyone to pitch in $10-$30. Before I moved to Japan I had never heard of such a thing. In the USA when I or my family through a party for friends it was always our treat (we paid everything) and anytime I visited a friend's party they never asked for or expected money. The closest to that kind of thing was a "potluck" party where every one brought some food or drink.

Now that I've lived in Japan for a long time I've started to see the benefits of paying. It spreads the burden. It makes it easier to consider throwing a party since you know it won't cost you $50 to $200 in expenses.

Also in Japan it's extremely common to rent an an entire bar, space, restaurant for parties and tell all your friends, come to my party, $30 a person. Before I was lived here that idea would have blown my mind? $30? I'm not going if it even costs $5!. Now that I'm used to it I just see it has "paying for experience" and or "the cost of having fun" and I see that it enables cool venues and also places to be loud without annoying neighbors (since clubs and bars are usually designed for sound). I've gone to the opposite extreme where I'm disappointed when my western friends complain about having to contribute.

So, paying for playdates sounds like it might have positives. More playdates. Maybe easier for the organizer to stock all the various alternative diets the different kids need. etc...


I think the post was joking.

But as I said earlier, 20XX is making yesterdays satirical jokes and turning it into today's headlines.


> And it's kind of tricky because it's a defacto part of society. I hate this hyper-scheduled hyper-data-driven stuff myself. But since the large majority of other parents do this, I can't avoid it

The problem is that this behavior is driven by a tiny monitory, and supported by the rest.

The honest answer is to be the jerk who doesn't go along with it. The only way we can stop being victim to societal trends is to go against the flow.


> The only way we can stop being victim to societal trends is to go against the flow.

This. Or to put it another way: "You know who's a more interesting person in adulthood? Someone whose parents didn't bow to peer pressure when they were a kid."

FFS. If you're a parent, you're supposed to be setting an example. Not giving in to the same impulses we ostensibly teach our children to resist.


Your child playing computer games alone all the time or even tinkering alone all the time because you are too proud will still lack peer contact.

You absolutely can opt out of socialization for both you and your kid. But, that is what you are doing there.


The alternative to helicopter parenting is not just opting out of socializing.

There's also, you know, letting your kid hang out with other kids organically. They do that naturally, you know?


Maybe it is too late to answer now, but anyway.

If other parents expect planned meetups, then "organically" is exactly that. Even if they take no issue random meets in principle, they already planned most time for other things. Their kids are not outside to be randomly met. Often other kids don't even live within walkable distance.

For that matter 3-6 years old don't "organically" start to visit each other alone without parents. How exactly you expect that to happen, really?


I guarantee you will find some other parents that are willing to let their children live like they did growing up.


Maybe for a _very_ specific subset of people, but I think by & large we can count on Americans' distaste for organizing our schedules to preclude any kind of hyper-optimized child-rearing from becoming too popular.

That is: the caricature's funny, but it sounds like _way_ too much damn work.


I believe it's accurate for a subset of middle class fams, and more higher class stay-at-home moms and families who can afford nannies.

They exist, but most families don't have the time and money.


It's not accurate. In a country of 325 million, you'll surely find some examples of it, but it's not been my experience as the father of two young children.


I live in the suburbs of north chicago. This weekend my 8 year old had a friend ride his bike to our house. They rode bikes up and down our street while our two younger kids tagged along, and they went and played in the creek up the road for an hour. Then they came back and played capture the flag and basketball, then came in and had a popsicle and played Super Smash Bros. At no point did my wife or I talk to his parents, aside from "X would like to come over sometime Saturday, will you be around?"

Apart from the Smash Bros., it could have been a scene from Andy Griffith or something. If it matters, this is from a pretty wealthy area (Michael Jordan's mansion is about 10 minutes up the road from us).




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