> Rule of thumb: it always, always goes back to class. No war but class war is a cliche for good reason.

If its politically convinent to view things in terms of class then of course everything gets traced back to class. But i think that is more about trying to fit every peg into a round hole no matter how square it is. As the cliche goes, if all you have is a hammer.

> That may be kinda true, but most Americans actually want it [0]

I dont think the poll supports your contention. Only 57% wanted it. I'm not sure where you are drawing the line between classes here, but its hardly just the upper class saying no.

> If its politically convinent to view things in terms of class then of course everything gets traced back to class.

You think I form my views for 'political convenience'? How strange.

People trace things back to class because that's the driving force behind so much of what's wrong with the world. It's not the majority of ordinary people who are fighting for stripping environment regulations, or clamoring to make defense contractors billions of dollars, or pushing to make torture legal, or fighting to give Israel more 2,000 lb unguided bombs. It's the .1%. And that isn't really controversial, or difficult to figure out.

When the political and media class are openly bought and owned by the .1%, refusing to acknowledge classes role in politics is profoundly silly.

> I dont think the poll supports your contention. Only 57% wanted it.

"Only" 57%? 57% is 'most'. By any and every definition.

And if you compare that to the ~3% (at absolute max) of media and political figures who argue for public healthcare, you may start to see what the problem is.

> its hardly just the upper class saying no.

Yes - because 99% of the media, owned by the .1%, work every day to convince people that healthcare for profit is somehow a good and clever thing.

The American health model is a sad laughing stock. It's a bogey man all over the world, a stark example of the perils of taking privatization too far. People in other countries are still cheering for Luigi lol.

This class war which we are all in (whether we are aware of it or not) has casualties; one of them is our more vulnerable and easily manipulated brethren. That's why it's "only" 57% - because lifelong propaganda does indeed have an effect, especially on the easily swayed. A lot of Americans don't even know that this is the majority view.

> You think I'm writing these comments for 'political convenience'? How strange.

I think you are interpreting evidence to support your preferred narrative without considering alternative explanations. Which is what i meant by politically convinent.

> Ordinary people aren't fighting for stripping environment regulations, or clamoring to make defense contractors billions of dollars.

Ordinary (working class people) people who work in those industries tend to be ok with it (arguably that is what makes capitalism insidious).

> "Only" 57%? 57% is 'most'. By any and every definition.

> And if you compare that to the ~3% (at absolute max) of media and political figures who argue for public healthcare, you may start to see what the problem is.

57% is a little more than half, which suggests the issue isn't correlated very strongly with class given you are counting only at most 3% as upper class.

Remember that if this issue had nothing to do with class you would expect 50% support (assuming the actual relavent variable was equally present in the sample group). The baseline is not 0% (or 3%) as that is what would happen if it was a class issue in the opposite direction (what you would get if lower classes hated the idea). ~50% suggests it is not a class issue but has some other cause that is more evenly distributed in the sample group.

Obviously this survey is the wrong type of survey to determine much of anything since its not broken down by demographics.

> This class war which we are all in (whether we are aware of it or not) has casualties; one of them is our more vulnerable and easily manipulated brethren. That's why it's "only" 57% - because lifelong propaganda does indeed have an effect, especially on the easily swayed.

Convinent that anyone who disagrees is just being manipulated.

I'm not neccesarily even saying that is untrue - propaganda exists for a reason; it can be very effective. However if you assume everyone who disagrees is swayed that is a dangerous path. Its non-falsifiable. How do you distinguish between people swayed by propaganda and people who legitamently disagree. Hell, if you are going down this path, why do you assume the 57% that want free healthcare are the real preference instead of the swayed by propaganda group? When you start believing this type of thing it starts to become pointless since you can always spin it as if everyone agrees with you regardless of if they actually do.