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“Replacing parking” is going to cause all sorts of fun. Where will the cars go?

And please spare me the tired “transit that is safe and not full of stabby hoboes will magically sprout out of nothing overnight” nonsense.



> Where will the cars go?

Half of some cities' downtown space is parking.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/smart-cities...

Every apartment complex in my area clearly has way, way more parking that needed - at no time of day are they more than 50% occupied.


In Europe generally all new bigger construction has most parking below ground, even 2-3 floors. Very few outside if any, normally just for quick drop off or services.

I've even seen locals blocking a successful local bank trying to build a additional building and planning way too many of those - citing concern of too much added traffic in neighborhood. Not entirely sure if thats the best approach, but thats how how respect for laws and locals looks like. At the end, bank managed just fine despite that restriction.


> at no time of day are they more than 50% occupied

Why is that? Is there more than one parking space per bedroom or do people not have cars?


America has eight parking spots per car.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90645900/america-has-eight-parki...

> Parking standards were created arbitrarily, without adequate data. Zoning laws usually require one parking space per apartment, one per 300 square feet of commercial development, and one per 100 square feet for restaurants. For context, a parking space measures 160 square feet on average, plus additional area for driveways and driving lanes, so an eatery’s parking lot may be three times the size of its dining area.


> Where will the cars go?

Idk, don't move there if having on-site parking is a dealbreaker for you. It isn't for a lot of people. Why should they subsidize someone else's parking preferences?


OTOH, nimbyism sucks.

OTOH, having 4/6/8 new tinyhouses worth of neighbours and the streets filled with their cars sucks for many in the neighbourhood - so you'd expect them to resist, or at least ask the question. Where will the cars go?

The "pursuit of happiness" applies to all.


> you'd expect them to resist, or at least ask the question. Where will the cars go?

Sounds like a streetside-parking regulation problem. Everyone asking questions every time someone wants to build anything is why we don’t build anymore. If we want to require parking we don’t get to complain about housing affordability.


The groups of people that "require parking" are largely different to the groups of people that "complain about housing affordability".

It's no surprise that complex issues will have various factions arguing about "their happiness".

It does seem like many countries are beyond the point of further conversation and need positive impactful action regarding housing affordability. Or even just any action at all so we can tell if it is the correct action...


Uh, no, there are plenty of people who complain about both affordability and availability of parking, sometimes in the same sentence.


The problem is that parking is too cheap. It's not hard to find parking in downtown NYC but you have to pay an arm and a leg for it.

Get rid of free parking and you'll never be short of it again. Putting a proper price will reduce demand and increase supply.


This is literally just a regressive tax.

Especially (but not solely) in areas with lack of quality public transportation (ie, doesn't double the time it takes to get somewhere)


Free parking is also regressive, the poor pay a much higher portion of their income for "free" parking than the rich do.

More generally, parking is a service. All market goods & services are highly regressive, because the rich and poor pay basically the same price. Addressing inequality at the individual goods level always creates more problems than it solves. Addressing it for parking is particularly unfair, because the very poorest don't have cars.

The poor would be far better off with more welfare and a less regressive tax system so they have more money to choose what they need. Paying for "free" parking via property taxes and baked into the costs of local stores is inefficient and regressive.


Transit that is safe will never sprout if you keep building parking lots.


The more popular mass transit becomes, the better the proposition of driving a car becomes.

You cannot escape that as transit drives down traffic and frees up parking, cars become much more enjoyable to use.


This is true, but only in a car-centric city like those in the US. If we extend this hypothetical to include additional changes to our infrastructure such as: reclaiming lanes for wider sidewalks, bike lanes, and bus/taxi lanes, restricting car traffic on heavily foot-trafficked streets, or building housing where parking was, cars remain cumbersome to use.

I’m not actually pitching this course of action for any specific city; I actually live in an extremely rural area and don’t have a horse in this race. Just want to make the point that mass transit investments can’t happen in a vacuum if we want to achieve the desired results.


It is taken as flatly impossible that parking would be reclaimed for other uses?


We don't build parking smart here in the States, period. Parking lots should be multi-story to serve multiple buildings and have an array of solar panels on the roof to contribute to the city's power needs.


In theory? In practice and when I have a choice, I will always pick mass transit instead of driving because I prefer to walk and avoid the hassles of traffic lights, risk of crashing or running someone over, wear and tear on my car, gasoline, etc...


> I will always pick mass transit

I'm going to guess you've never had some drugged-up crazy try to stab you in a bus? After the second time it happens, you never ever consider it again. Life is too short to die like that.


I'm going to guess you've never had some drugged-up crazy nearly ram into you at high speed in a car? Life is too short to die like that, and to spend it sitting in traffic to boot.


Car has airbags. My chances are better than “knifed on BART”. And your chances of a fatal collision in stop-and-go traffic are as close to zero as a number can be - the kinetic energy just isn't there at those speeds.


As best as I can tell your gut feeling and anecdotal experience here is not supported by evidence / data.

One particular example that had a good breakdown: https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...


How many people per year are knifed on the BART?


I’ve been using public transport my whole life, and that has never happened. Not even when I’ve visited the US. You may be a statistical anomaly.

(If nothing else, the piles of corpses would, presumably, be noticeable and cause scheduling issues.)


With working public transport, you’ll generally see more development without parking. Very, very few of the places I go regularly have parking at all.


Who doesn't enjoy a good equilibrium?


Maybe, maybe not. But you need to solve people's transportation problems first, not claim that if they give up car transportation options something else will materialize later.


I never said otherwise, but continuing to prioritize cars only makes everything, even car travel, worse.


> > But you need to solve people's transportation

> > problems first, not claim that if they give up

> > car transportation options something else will

> > materialize later

.

> I never said otherwise, but continuing to prioritize

> cars only makes everything, even car travel, worse.

.

You have JUST said otherwise! You want to deprioritize what works in favour of what does not exist while offering no path for it to exist and dodging the reality that no such path exists.


Okay, thank you for telling me what I want to do. You see, I thought I wanted start working on other forms of transit while still leaving cars as they are. I thought I wanted to stop saying one more lane will fix it, and actually try adding transit options. I thought I wanted to build safe sidewalks and bike infrastructure that actually goes somewhere, instead of just adding more parking lots.

I'm really glad you were here to tell me what I actually wanted. I'm glad you were here to twist my words up so bad that I finally understand that what I really wanted is to completely get rid of cars overnight, and then sit around on our thumbs and hope that someday a magic carpet will come and carry us all off to our destinations.


If you're not able to afford a regular-sized house in some area, you're likely not able to afford a car either. Also, the places with more residential density already have public transit that is heavily used by normal people. Sadly cities will always have crime, but IMO crimes on public transit are the least of your problems if you're stuck in a neighborhood like that. And nothing is stopping miscreants from stealing stuff from your car trunk, breaking a window in your car just for fun, or keying your car, or possibly much worse if your car is a Tesla these days.


Forgot the elephant in the room here. Public transit fatality rates per mile are much lower than driving your own car.


This is where you have to be smart about parking. Building small houses like that, raised up so you can park a car underneath, gets dual use out of the same square footage. While you are at it, orient the building properly so that installing PV panels on the roof makes sense. Now we have three uses for the same square footage.




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