When 99% of React apps (websites tbh, with very few needs for complex reactivity...) including those built by multi billion/trillion $ companies, struggle to produce non-bloated, non-slow, accessible websites, you know that the library is simply too complex to tame.

Of course React can be performant, but still, you're getting a PhD in its internals and hooks to get what you have in vue/nuxt/svelte whatever out of the box.

It does not matter what framework you chose, if you carelessly throw money at something it is not guaranteed to be good or fast. A framework doesn't replace company culture.

Plus, in my experience, PhDs do not make good developers - they often fall into the trap of thinking too abstract vs. being pragmatic.

I say all of this as someone that would rather use Svelte, and doesn't really care what's going on in the React ecosystem. This is purely about its raw performance.

> you're getting a PhD in its internals and hooks to get what you have in vue/nuxt/svelte whatever out of the box.

You can look at React, Svelte, and Vue benchmarks here: https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/2025/table...

Outside of Swap Rows, React is like 15% slower than Vue, 30% slower than Svelte. That's not nothing, but it's definitely not as catastrophic as you're implying. And these aren't hyper optimized benchmarks, these are pretty naive implementations.

You know what is actually slow? Alpine JS. It's slow as fuck. But people talk about it like it's some super lean framework.

> When 99% of React apps (websites tbh, with very few needs for complex reactivity...) including those built by multi billion/trillion $ companies, struggle to produce non-bloated, non-slow, accessible websites, you know that the library is simply too complex to tame.

Ignoring the nonsense 99% figure, I don't think entire sites should be React. I am talking about its rendering because that's what all of your comments are about. Not whether an entire site should be generated with just JS.

I can't explain to you what tomfoolery billion dollar companies conduct to get such garbage. I can tell you it's not unique to React. Apple Music is dreadful, and it's Svelte. There were plenty of slow JQuery websites. You are seeing more bad React websites because you are seeing more React websites in general. It's the PHP problem.