All those companies are there precisely as cover for the few that really drive the lobbying efforts, so that people like you can pop up on the internet and say how it is not just a minority of companies perverting the law in their own favor. You can fall for it or you can see through it (assuming you are not a paid shill in the first place) - I think we should see through it and call it for what it is: a small minority of enormous companies manipulating laws in their own favor and to the detriment of the people.
I guess that's one perspective. For those that do want a list of the "big" companies, here are the ones that I recognize and thought of as "big names":
3M
Adobe Systems
Boston Scientific
Dolby Laboratories
The Dow Chemical Company
DuPont
Fairchild Semiconductor
Fairfield Crystal Technology
General Electric
IBM
IEEE-USA
Johnson & Johnson
Microsoft
Procter & Gamble
Qualcomm
Xerox Corporation
This is probably not a complete list, since I am not very tuned in and may not be familiar with the "big names" that others are.
Things like "Medical Device Manufacturers Association" probably count in that list as they exist solely as a lobbying group. http://www.medicaldevices.org/
That's a reasonable criticism, and I would certainly agree such an insinuation would be a step too far. However I would also argue that the tone and context of my comment make it quite clear that I don't consider the poster to be a shill, but merely allow for that possibility in qualifying my statements, which is quite different to what you are suggesting.
Since accusations of "shilling" have been made anyway, check this out: Remember when the Judge made his "Name Your Shills" order in Oracle v Google? Guess what! The author of TFA was named in Google's list of shills! I guess that makes him a legally certified shill! And since you're so quick to support the author's viewpoint...
To be fair, I don't think the author's a shill. But I've been following him since he wrote for Ars (and he's also on HN sometimes), so I can tell he certainly has drunk some Kool-aid, and it has a slight Google flavor. He interned there after all, so that may explain why Microsoft was highlighted in the headlines.
But notably, he also is (or was) a "scholar" at the Cato Institute, which believes in "limited government and free markets" and seems to have anti-IP leanings. Unsurprisingly the author's articles (even this one!) often uncritically cite the works published by academics like James Bessen, which like to paint a "sky is falling" situation with respect to US IP policies, even though these works have time and again been strongly called into question by other academics. Given that he's a scholar himself, I'd be surprised if he's unaware of that, but his articles only ever present one side.
So the Kool-aid may have other, stronger flavors as well, but he's definitely drunk some.
I find having the list in full is great, because they need to be named and shamed, too. Each and every one of them deserves a negative business impact for signing it.
According to the article, IBM and Microsoft are notable for their portfolio size and lobbying budgets:
> And few firms have larger software patent portfolios than Microsoft and IBM. These companies, which also happen to have two of the software industry's largest lobbying budgets, have been leading voices against the expansion of the CBM program.
I can believe that IBM does far more software patent lobbying than most of the firms whose core products are not directly software related
The culture is there because they make serious money from licensing. Also so if anyone comes after them for anything patent related then big blue have effectively got the nuclear option at their disposal and can wipe the aggressor off the map.
>According to the article, IBM and Microsoft are notable for their portfolio size and lobbying budgets
This is what tech companies spent in Q3 2013, maybe someone else can post IBM's stats but Microsoft's spending doesn't look all that high to me.
Google 3.4M
Microsoft 2.2M
Facebook 1.7M
Apple 0.97M
Amazon 0.78M
I think the real story is how cheap the lobbying costs are.
What I completely fail to understand with all the Snowden revelations and stories like this is that Silicon Valley tech folks have enormous salaries and high disposable income.
If they would actually contribute some of that to a PAC or to the EFF, it would be way more productive than sitting in Starbucks sipping a $5 latte and posting "Not going to get the Xbox from M$. Getting a PS4 for $400 + games for $60 each instead! That's going to teach them! And Bill Gates sucks despite helping the poorest people in Africa and India!" from their latest MacBook or iPad Air on HN articles such as these(you can see those posts below).
I guess gathering HN karma feels better and is cheaper than actually trying to make a real difference on issues that people seem to write emotional posts about.
Having seen a lot of such issues and discussions from my Slashdot days, my prediction is that nothing will come out of it except a lot of hot air discussion.
... nonprofits like Crossroads GPS and trade associations like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce are allowed to keep their donors secret. As a result, there is a great flood of campaign spending this election cycle for which there is no official paper trail.
I don't think the proper response of rich Valley people is to ramp up their donations to PACs unless it's the Wolf-PAC which is organizing to pass a Constitutional amendment to reform campaign finance and lobbying:
They are at least focusing on the heart of the matter: corporate personhood. Get rid of that, and you open the door for all the other reforms. As long as amoral, immortal and extremely powerful entities like corporations get equal rights as human beings, it is unavoidable that the laws, including patent law, are forced along amoral pathways.
Software patent reform is battling a symptom, not the cause.
I believe that's true for contributions from private companies who don't have to report their earnings. Maybe a finance guru can pitch in, but don't public companies like IBM and Microsoft have to declare such donations in their earnings statements?
Yes, most people here make absurds amount of money and rage against this kind of thing but for some reason are super hesitant to actually donate to people fighting for things they believe in. If you're a developer, please consider making a monthly donation to the EFF. https://supporters.eff.org/donate
Nice idea but why they don't talk about what they really do? Five sentences in the "what we do" section isn't enough, where's detailed plan? And as I see in their latest financial report, they've got 7.86 million dollars last year but only spent 4.53. Looks like they've got enough money, but not enough opportunities for it?
Having a small savings to get you through trouble doesn't make you well off. You make it sound like you have to run yourself irresponsibly in the red to be able to qualify as struggling to get by.
Yes--we need to know what they do? We need to be able to
look up their financials on GuideStar. We need to know how much the founders are taking home in salary. (I haven't checked GuideStar yet). The days of blindly giving over
money are over--at least for me.
These very very low numbers should already tell you that they come from doubtful sources. $3M is absolute pocket change for companies like Google and Microsoft, compared to the enormous benefits you can realize with lobbying.
I really want to like Bill Gates, but whenever I see him
bragging, along with Wife, about all the people he helps--
I can't think,"But we actually paid for all your Philanthropy?"
As to this bill, it's a shame. I don't think there's a politician out there who understands B.F. Skinner.
Why should I put my money where my mouth is when I can just write a few angry posts on HN. My congressperson reads HN right?
Seriously, people need to understand that unless you are reasonably famous, people care way less about what you say than what you do. That means money. Don't give it to people and companies you don't like. Give it to people and companies you do like.
Oh and for the love of god, don't argue for silly "campaign finance" laws that restrict our ability to donate to politicians. I guarantee these large companies with armies of lawyers and lobbyists will be way more adept at finding loopholes than we the average people will be. It silences us way more than them.
Good luck - many of these companies form the basis for the products you eat or use (Proctor & Gamble), rely on (General Electric), or need in an emergency (Medical Device Manufacturers Association). A boycott here won't have much effect because in practice it's almost impossible to avoid using or relying on the products or services offered by these companies.
Rather, you should focus your ire and spending practices on the congress people that agreed to leave the CBM out of the legislation. They care more about what you think or care about.
Or give your money to folks like the EFF that will use their lobbying power to counterweight these other folks.
>Rather, you should focus your ire and spending practices on the congress people that agreed to leave the CBM out of the legislation.
Or rather.. do both; do anything we can..
Boycoting the products its also a good idea.. a very good one.. if we can get a "anti-patent" conscious citizen the same way we do with the green conscience..
The companies will fall faster, less money to spend in lobbies.. so why not?
Looking through the list of P&G brands, I can say that I haven't bought anything from them in years, even when I lived in the US.
I do agree though that boycotting every company that engages in questionable behavior would be near impossible. It's better to change the system, but if in the meantime you can avoid giving money to the most heinous companies then why not?
Is there a such thing as a partial boycott, where you just use less of something or avoid some of a company's products but not others? Perhaps there's another word for it. Either way, this seems like it would be useful too (maybe even more so because it's more realistic for people to do).
The goal of any public pressure tactic is to force an organization to change its policy. Not to deny it revenue. If you're not doing the former, then all you're accomplishing with the latter is making yourself feel good about 'doing something'.
And how do you force it to change its policy simply by not buying its products? Why would a company, particularly a worldwide conglomerate, care whether you buy their products or not?
Most "equivalent generics" are in fact made by the same companies that make the major name brands, in the same factories; they cost less because lower marketing expenses.
If you buy store generic-equivalents, its quite likely your money is going to exactly the same major corporation as the name brand in pretty much the same quantity (after deducting that the part that the major corporation would be paying to marketing/advertising firms to market the name brand.)
So, while it saves you money, it may not be as effective a boycott technique as you think. Unless your boycott target is the advertising industry.
I might be wrong but I don't think that the problem is with those companies trying to help themselves. Like many, I think that politicians should not be allowed to accept bribes from companies and that it might just solve problems like this one.
The fact of the matter is that Procter and Gamble doesn't need to "bribe" any politicians to get favorable legislation. They just have to call up a Congressman and say: "hey, we have tens of thousands of workers in your state, it would be a shame if anything happened to them."
I think that you have a good point. But these "tiny" amounts could easily double/triple the politician's salaries (if the companies spend it in the right places, they don't need to bribe everybody).
I believe it's that the LLC "incorporation" is something generally used for small businesses, sole proprietorships, etc. The LLCs could likely be viewed as either patent troll companies or small companies built or paid to put their name behind legislation like this.
(I could be way off, but that's how I'm viewing them)
Why is the IEEE involving itself in software patents to begin with? Or would this change to the patent system have affected non-software patents as well?
I can only assume that these companies have subsidiaries that have software patents. They probably own manufacturing patents not to mention patents in the tech and pharmaceutical areas, many of which could be software related.
The list:
3M
ActiveVideo Networks, Inc.
Adobe Systems
Advanced Technology Ventures
Allison Transmission, Inc.
Architecture Technology Corporation
Beckman Coulter, Inc.
BGC Partners, Inc.
Bi-Level Technologies
Biotechnology Industry Organization
Boston Scientific
Brash Insight Corp.
BSA - The Software Alliance
Cabochon, Inc.
California Healthcare Institute (CHI)
Cantor Fitzgerald L.P.
Caterpillar, Inc.
Ciencia, Inc.
Cleveland Medical Devices Inc.
Colorado Technology Consultants
CONNECT
Cotera Inc.
The Cummins Allison Corporation
Dolby Laboratories
Domain Associates
Donohue Consulting, Inc.
The Dow Chemical Company
DR Systems, Inc.
DuPont
Eatoni Ergonomics, Inc.
Eli Lilly & Company
Embedded Systems LLC
Entrepreneurs for Growth
Entropic Communications, Inc.
ExploraMed Development, LLC
Fairchild Semiconductor
Fairfield Crystal Technology
Fallbrook Technologies Inc.
Flocel Inc.
Forsight Labs
ForSight VISION4, Inc.
Foundry Newco XII, Inc. (d/b/a Twelve)
Freescale Semiconductor
GearMax USA Ltd.
General Electric
General Nanotechnology LLC
Global Network Computers
Great Lakes Neuro Technologies Inc.
Holaira, Inc.
IBM
IEEE-USA
Illinois Tool Works Inc.
Innovation Alliance
Inogen, Inc.
Insight Legal
Interknowlogy
Inventors Network of the Capital Area
IP Advocate
IP Pipeline Consulting, LLC
Irwin Research & Development, Inc. eptember 19, 2013
Johnson & Johnson
Karbonique, Inc.
KeepSight LLC
Kovogen, LLC
Lauder Partners, LLC
Licensing Executives Society (USA & Canada), Inc.
Lightstone Ventures
MediaFriends, Inc.
Medical Device Manufacturers Association
MH Systems, Inc.
Micron Technologies
Microsoft
Miramar Labs, Inc.
Morgenthaler Ventures-Life Sciences
National Association of Manufacturers (NAM)
Neodyne Biosciences, Inc.
NeoTract, Inc.
NeuroPace, Inc.
NeuroWave Systems Inc.
Nevro Corp.
NuGEN Technologies, Inc.
NuVasive, Inc.
OL2, Inc. (OnLive)
Orbital Research Inc.
Patent Office Professional Association
Power Auctions LLC
Precision Combustion
PreEmptive Solutions
Procter & Gamble
Prometheus Research, LLC
Qualcomm
Rearden Companies, LLC
Restoration Robotics, Inc.
Sapheon, Inc.
Software Partners LLC
Soleon Robotics LLC
Tessera
The Foundry LLC
TM Technologies, Inc.
Trading Technologies
U.S. Business and Industry Council
Vibrynt, Inc.
Xerox Corporation