> The difference is that Google, Facebook, et al are opt-in

With the remarkable penetration of things like google analytics and the ilk, this may not be quite that simple.

Moxie has also pointed out that the choice is not simply "Do I want to be surveilled by Google?" or "Do I want the telco to track my every move?". It's stuff like "Do I want to stop talking to all of my friends who use GMail?". Or "Do I want to not have a cellphone and prevent myself from participating in informal social event planning?".

You were perfectly clear. You've made it clear yourself that the opt-in fiction is just that, just as the difference between corporate and government surveillance, such as it is, does not rely on any opt-in mechanism or lack thereof.

Don't give us this crap that there is a difference between the two when your point is so self-defeating.

I guess one difference is that you are relying on the assumption that Google is a bad actor. Google's actions have not shown that, and the benefit of the doubt is an important ideal.

how do you even know they do it all behind closed doors. with a one size fits all non negotiable contract.