Funny Story: I was traveling from Portugal back to the U.S. through Charles de Gaulle Airport and my Dad gave me 4 Euros. I went to this little bakery and the man behind the counter asked me what I wanted in French. I mustered up as much throat as I possibly could and said croissant which was apparently good enough for him to go off on this long answer to what I ordered. I looked at him blankly and said "Sorry man, that's the only word I know." He was not amused.
The French are very proud and protective of their language. I have a similar experience, I was asking Je cherche le croissants (or something: I'm looking for croissants), I got a blank stare until my friend made a very theatrical overly french "Croissants!" hand waving and all, then the supermarket guy understood. I know of no other language that invented new words when computers came to the market (ordinateur) or when RNA splicing was discovered (Épissage). French will be spoken long after Dutch completely Englifies.
Ordinateur was not invented when computers came to the market. It was coined in its modern sense of computing machine, not by Proud French People Who Liked Their Language but by IBM France, because they felt that "calculateur" (French for -- whaddya know! -- "something that computes", a literal equivalent for "computer") was too restrictive. In the 1950s, when that happened, "ordinateur" had been in use for a very long time. I don't know how common it was (I'm not a native French speaker), but it's certainly not a word they made up on the spot (it's of very obvious Latin origin), and they don't use it because they don't have a more appropriate word for "computer" (which they do -- "calculateur", which they deemed inappropriate because a "calculateur" could do a lot more than "calculer"; just like, indeed, a "computer" could do a lot more than "compute").
Many European languages had a local equivalent for "computer" long before electronic computers were around, and French is certainly not the only one that kept it.
No we don't. To be frank, podcasts are not a (big) thing here.
I love how Quebecois are always inventing these funny french words, always put a smile on my face.
I got to talk to my friends about 'baladodiffusions' but I'm not sure that they all know what a podcast is so I doubt they will appreciate this new word to its full extent.
According to Google there are French podcasts, and they are very popular ! I found an article from 2012 that said there was 20 millions podcasts downloads in France every month (we're a bit less than 70 millions French).
I had no idea since nobody I know ever mentioned podcasts to me. Maybe they're all Luddites or they hide their podcast addiction well ;-)
Me I exclusively listen to audio books (and I can recommend wholeheartedly the ones from Graphic Audio).
A natural counterpart to the magnétophone that plays audio tape (which itself probably derives from gramophone).
Forced frenchified words that come to mind would be couriel for email, and mot-dièse (literally "sharp word") for "hash tag", when both English terms already are in common use.
Télécopieur is one of my favourites, it's the fax machine. The fax, i.e. the piece of paper coming out, is the télécopie. Tele-copy, that's something I can get wrap my head around, it actually is a better derivation than from Latin facsimile.
There is also Informatics in English (what BAs, System Analysts and Software Project Managers study in some parts of the world), but I'm not sure how it maps:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatics
In my time travelling in France (Paris, Nice and surrounding areas), I made every attempt to say the little things in French. "Bonjour" , "Le menu pour Anglais" or "L'Addition s'il vous plait", "Parlez vous anglais?" etc. The idea was to start any question or conversation in french and then switch to English.
Never did I have a problem over my 2 weeks with anyone. Everyone appreciated the effort to speak the language and was super polite and warm.
I speak French reasonably well, but I was often treated rudely, particularly by people in customer service roles (my wife and I studied abroad). Clerks seemed agitated to have to deal with foreigners, taxis would blow off appointments, and even simple questions (e.g., asking for directions to a nearby building/office/etc) was met with "c'est impossible". In one case, my wife and I booked a hotel online, but upon checking in the clerk told us we had to pay for two rooms because my wife and I couldn't share a room. When I asked for an explanation, he said, "It's like putting 3 people on a 2-person motorcycle, it's just impossible!" (clearly he'd not been to India).
My French friends speculated that it could have been xenophobia or specifically that I was mistaken for an Englishman (I'm American, but apparently the French particularly dislike the English?).
At any rate, I had many positive experiences, and even these "negative experiences" weren't particularly negative (this was before being easily offended was fashionable among university students in the U.S.); it was more a neutral, cultural observation.
Frenchie here. I think it is a very common misunderstanding. My bet is that if you got a blank stare, the person just had no idea what you were saying. It has nothing to do with your proud or protection our language. I got a lot of blank stares when I moved to the US 10 years ago ;-)
A tip to foreigners: it's considered exceptionally rude not to say hello to someone behind the counter, or when entering a store. I often cringe when I see Americans order something at a café counter: they have the best intentions, they're trying hard to be polite, and right off the bad they commit a huge faux-pas by immediately saying "un café s'il vous plait!".
That's my theory as well. I've heard many horror stories about American being served by racists french, but most of these starts with the American not knowing you have to start with "Bonjour". Extremely unpolite not to start by "Bonjour" in France, even when you enter an elevator with complete strangers you will have to say Bonjour.
Well even French people between themselves occasionally use "hello", so it's quite natural to answer hello to someone who seems to have a foreign accent.
It varies a lot. Last time I was in Paris there were people who were easy to deal with, and people who weren't. I can typically start a conversation in French, and carry out simple tasks like ordering/buying things, asking for directions. And that seems to help a lot, as does the fact that I've been told I have a Québecois accent (my first immersion in French was on a trip to Québec) and so I probably get taken for Canadian rather than American. But there are still many people whose entire attitude changes when they hear someone walking in and holding a conversation in English before switching to French, and I've actually been unable to get a table at a restaurant, or get help finding something in a store, when that happened.
Only the French could describe asking for a coffee with "please" on the end as "exceptionally rude".
It's almost petty. You will forgive any other faux-pas as long as you start the interaction with "bonjour"? And if you mis-pronounce "bonjour"? Do we need to seek forgiveness from the President? I like flying over France and going to Spain and Italy where none of this nonsense exists.
If you go to Japan and do not take off your shoes in certain you'll be considered exceptionally rude. Are you going to criticize the Japanese now?
Different countries have different cultural expectations and customs. In France not saying Bonjour is considered rude (and hello works in Paris by the way), in other countries other things are considered rude. It's not because you're traveling and a tourist that you do not need to try to learn and follow the local customs.
>Different countries have different cultural expectations and customs.
Thank you!
I'd also like to point out that this yahoo seems unaware of his own cultural baggage. I bet he'd consider it extremely rude for someone to cut in front of a line at a bus stop, whereas such things are perfectly acceptable in other countries (in France we hardly have lines at bus stops).
Just like cutting a bus queue can be taken as a disrespect, engaging in a transaction without acknowledging that the person behind the counter is ... well... a person can be taken as looking down on people who serve you.
Just as I don't assume foreigners are conspiring to pounce on unsuspecting tourists who cut lines, I expect our friend switch007 not to assume we're doing the same with respect to saying "hello".
This kind of blatant ethnocetrism betrays self-ignorance that borders on comical, and invites ridicule hereabouts.
I think the parent was oversimplifying a bit, and it looks like you took his answer a bit too literally. What is important really here is to establish a contact with the person before asking for service. Anything goes - bonjour, hello, a smile, a nod (works for me very well). Just try to put a bit of your emotions into this (presumably: you are a stranger in a foreign g country not speaking language and needing assistance), and the rest will go accordingly.
In most countries I have been to people tried to help me when I spoke their language badly. In France (especially in Paris) I just get a blank stare or they are amused when I mispronounce something but still won't help. Maybe they are not used to people with an accent?
I've been to many countries and French are by far the hardest people to communicate with. Every time I'd ask something, I would be completely misunderstood. Like this time I tried to order a set menu in a fast food restaurant (Quick). You'd think it would be the easiest thing ever? Except the cashier brought out 2 identical burgers for some reason. It took me 5 minutes to explain that I only need one burger, all the while a huge queue accumulated behind me. I can't help but have a suspicion they're just fucking with me.
Greek universities teach computer science courses in Greek so a lot of the terminology is translated over. When I speak to fellow Greeks who have studied CS in Greek, there's always a bit of mental gear shifting needed before we can be sure we're on the same page.
A few examples:
μεταγλωττιστής (compiler; lit. someone doing voice-overs of foreign language speech)
πολυπλέκτης (multiplexer; lit. multi-knitter. Note that "plex" is possibly from the Greek for 'knitting', 'pleximo')
σφάλμα κατάτμησης (lit. segmentation fault)
περιηγητής (web browser; lit. explorer or sightseer)
μητρική (motherboard; lit. maternal (card))
And my personal favourite:
αντικειμενοστραφής προγραμματισμός (object oriented programming, literally, in the sense of "oriented" used to denote physically orienting one's body towards a given direction; in other words "programming that is facing objects")
In Spanish OOP is "programación orientada a objetos", which suffers from the same mistranslation as in Greek. It also means "programming that is facing objects", in a quite physical sense.
I don't really think you could do that in Spanish, at least until we started copying English terms.
Yes, now we also use "orientar a" to translate other English buzzwords like "orientado a resultados" (result-oriented), "orientado a la productividad" (productivity-oriented), etc. But outside of linguistic calques of modern English expressions and buzzwords, I've never heard or read anyone using "orientar a" for anything else than facing a direction.
I might be wrong, of course, as language is very complex and has a lot of regional variations (in particular Spanish, which changes a lot between Spain and the various Latin American countries); but my perception as a Spanish speaker from Spain is that the term originated from a bad translation of English, and something like "programación centrada en objetos", "basada en objetos", etc. would have been better.
I think that this reputation is waaaay overblown, due to the mostly futile efforts of the Académie Française to preserve the "pure" French language.
As an American who spent a semester in a high school in France, I remember being shocked hearing our French teacher use "le timing et le planning" discussing our strategy for how to write an in-class essay. This was an ordinary French class for French speakers made up of upper-middle class 11th graders in a stuffy Catholic school.
English loan words (the term itself is valid in French!) are all over the place. "OK" is pervasive. Other examples include "stop", "week-end", "parking", . There are even strange examples where English words are used in ways that make no sense in English. "Footing" means "jogging". "String" means "thong". "Pull" (as in "pullover") means "sweater". "Chewing" means gum. "Baskets" means "sneakers". My favorite though, is "talkie-walkie" where the "l"s are both pronounced.
If you received a blank stare from the supermarket guy, he probably just did not understand what you were saying.
I studied computer science in Wales in the 90s. Although the lectures were all in English, we had the option of taking our exams in Welsh. (University Policy was that everything must be bilingual, even hand-written student posters on bulleting boards. There was a free full-time translation service in the student union.)
This was especially odd because a lot of the Welsh terms for computing subjects were invented and/or standardised after we took the classes, and different colleges were using different terms for the same concepts.
Needless to say, nobody did the exams in Welsh.
(The only Welsh most of us learned was just enough to fake our way into Clwb Ifor Bach, the welsh-speakers' bar/nightclub!)
That's interesting... I've had positive experiences when I've visited. I've heard from a lot of Americans that they are treated rudely, even when they attempt to communicate in limited French. I had several years of it, though I was rusty when I went to France, but despite my mistakes I felt I was treated very warmly and they seemed to enjoy indulging my attempts to use the language.
At one time I was moderately competent in French and so was comfortable going up to counters and just asking questions in French without hesitation, in both France and Belgium.
That's to say, I've a lot of experience with this as a foreigner. I've had everything from beaming smiles and responses in French, to confused expressions upon which I've repeated myself more slowly, to grimaces and reluctant replies, to just outright replies in English.
The truth is, the regularity with which you're treated rudely is about the same as anywhere. Sometimes you go to counters, or restaurants, or bars at home and are treated very rudely. The person working there might be genuinely miserable, they might have just spoken to another customer who was rude, they might just be tired. You don't take any of these things to mean anything about the culture where you live. It's just people.
Any type of broad summary of 'the people in X' is always something I take with a massive grain of salt. You hear it all the time. Somebody spent 3 days in Hanoi, and had a friendly interaction with one or two locals, so the Vietnamese are lovely people, while in Hong Kong they had a rude taxi driver, and had a hotel on a busy road, so the people there are a bit ruder, a bit more rushed and loud, they say. Whilst the Australian they met who bought them a beer.. such generous people, those Australians! You get the idea :-)
I know of no other language that invented new words when computers came to the market (ordinateur)
Many European languages have native words for computer. In Swedish it's "dator" (from "datum"), in Finnish "tietokone" (literally "knowledge machine").
The English word "computer" is not a new word, but an old job title reassigned to a machine. It makes sense that other languages might choose a different etymology for an information processing engine.
Turkish also did, the word was originally brought into Turkish as "Kompüter". But that didn't sound nearly turkish enough, so it was replaced with Bilgisayar, or "knowledge counter".
Turkey has an official government body which regulates the Turkish language and naturalizes foreign loan words. It used to be much more active but people generally still listen to it, why copy the sounds of a foreign word when you can copy the meaning and end up with a word that's much easier to say and remember?
They recently tried to rebrand selfie as özçekim, "self-picture", but I think it's a little too late for that one.
Every time I meet a French person my go-to sentence to show off my French is: "à quelle heure le garage est fermé?", only to be met with the same blank stare. I then ask if I pronounced it wrong and they say (in English): "no I understand, but which garage do you mean?".
Your sentence is a bit ungrammatical. It would be more natural to say "À quelle heure le garage ferme-t-il?" if you mean "when does the garage close?" (expecting a precise time: it closes at 9PM), or "Quand le garage est-il fermé?", if you mean "when is the garage closed"? (expecting an interval: it's closed from 9PM until 10AM the next day).
The French verb "épisser" is an old verb that means "to splice", and actually comes from middle Dutch "splissen". Épissage is just the noun form of it. It's as natural for French speakers to use "épissage" in the context of RNA splicing as it is for English speakers to use "splicing". Why would they borrow a word from English when they already have a perfectly good one?
As someone who has spent half of their life in France and the other half in North America, I would disagree. I return every 2 years or so to visit family, and am always appalled by the amount of English words that weasel their way into the language.
Marketers (in France and many other countries) have realized that the American legacy of progress and technology is still cool and edgy, and helps sell pretty much anything.
It honestly irritates me, as 95% of those intruder words are not only often misused in their context, but have perfect etymologically correct translations in French.
Un steak is spelled the same but pronounced "steck". The Hangover movie was literally called "Bad Trip" in France, instead of "La gueule de bois". "Shopping" is the go-to word to describe purchasing goods, even though "achat" is a perfectly valid word.
I could go on and on: un smartphone, la freebox (router), un smoking (a tuxedo), un string (a thong), wi-fi (this one is worldwide), chewing gum, businessman, boycott, startup, warning...
> I know of no other language that invented new words when computers came to the market (ordinateur)
Norwegian: datamaskin. Until the mid 80's it was widely debated what name to use, with datamaskin, data, komputer og dator (from Swedish) as common alternatives.
Icelandic apparently uses "tölva" - basically "prophetess of numbers" (from "tala" and "völva").
Swedish: dator (can be precisely dated to 1968). You can also use "datamaskin" in Swedish as well, but it is dated.
Anglicisms in French is actually a funny subject. According to different sources, roughly 45% of all English words have a French origin. Thus, there's a lot of overlap between English and French. Some words, such as camping, parking and flirting are considered anglicisms in French, but they are actually words from the Old French that did a full round-trip from French to English to French.
Although the stems are ok and related to other French words (camping -> camp, campement, camper ; parking -> parc, parquer ; flirting <-> conter fleurette), I think what can shock the purists is this ending is -ing which does not sound French at all and is not grammatically French.
Swahili has words for different types of computers e.g. Taraklishi(regular computer), Taraklishikuu(super computer) and Tarakilishi kiunzikuu (mainframe).
These words have not been created by regular French people people proud of the language, it is mainly due to the fact that there is a pretty powerful council creating new words and regulating the French language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise.
